It has never been proven one way or the other if sexual attraction, something that can change gradually in a person’s lifetime (to different extents: see, pedophiles), has a genetic influence. In fact the whole idea is absurd. I’m all for not hating on people who pursue homosexual lifestyles, but hating on people that simply believe different things than you for religious reasons by being confused about how genetics works is just wrong on so many levels.
ummm… try checking with the South Korean Institute for advance science and technology… They’d smack you in the face with the actual results where they found the GENETIC MARKER for homosexuality in female mice… oh and go read the 20 year old study that shows how when a woman has a male child the body sees it as an invader and produces anti-bodies to attack it… The more males that woman has the better the body gets at fighting the male fetus with anti-bodies and hormones.. which results in an vastly greater chance that the later male children will be born gay. BTW that study is confirmed by even Christian scientists and they even made a video for churches to show. so ignorance fail.
Actually… that stuff is in my AP Psych textbook. Myer’s Psychology 9th edition (in modules). Not everything in real science has web links to creditless sites like you think. And not everything used in a debate needs to necessarily be cited, it could be just prior knowledge.
If one of a pair of identical twins is gay, that gives a larger (52%) chance the other will be gay… so 50/50ish.
Why, if this is a genetically controlled trait; would it be 50/50? If one twin has blue eyes, the other identical twin damn well has blue eyes.
But yeah, it’s completely genetic… and genetics control outcome about 50% of the time.
Of course that site uses their evidence to “prove” that it is completely genetic; so don’t feel bad.. lots of people apparently don’t understand science.
Or prove me wrong… explain why a genetically caused trait has a 50/50 chance of applying to an identical twin with the exact same set of genes.
1. either it is a combination of social and genetic factors that create the tendency, which might need a genetic background but a social/emotional/psychological influence to “activate” (so to speak). thus, why many people (more common in women) who have suffered certain kinds traumatic sexual abuse are also homosexual.
2. the genetic code is indicative of a tendency, not a hardwired fact — in other words, it shapes a mental or emotional path of development, it doesn’t create tendency in and of itself — and the creation of that path could, with other factors, result in homosexual tendency if said path of development is continued.
but you’re right — if it was purely genetic, then people with identical genetic codes would have the same genetic tendency. at the same time, if it was not genetic at all, one could argue that the 50% rate (which is, depending on which study you read, 5-10 times more common than the average) is an anomaly that needs to be explained.
It’s a mixture of genetic factors and prenatal hormones. Look up the post that talks about the antibodies in a mother’s womb; that’s why having more older brothers increases your chances of being gay
It was completely forced. Even granting the “homosexuality is sin” and “we can reliably predict homosexuality” arguments (both of which are ridiculous), there is never and never has been a prohibition against bringing a child into the world because it might sin after it gets here.
Never.
Nowhere.
Nota.
Except in an atheist’s mind as he waits shivering in bed for the evil Christians to jump out of the closet and “get” him.
Atheist strawmen stand in fields at night scaring away crows, they don’t sleep in beds. Seriously this flamewar was supposed to be aimed at Christians, how the hell to people manage to drag atheists into every. Bucking. Debate?
I agree, though bisexuals also can’t suppress their feelings because of their surroundings, and can’t choose to be with a male just coz of it, if they are inlove with someone of the same sex.
And the commenter two comments below, should get some education, on humans.
If what you WANT to believe was actually true, then doctors would be able to tell parents weather their kid was going to be gay just like they can (and do) tell the parents if the kid is going to be autistic.
You HAVE noticed that this doesn’t happen back here in the real world, right?
This doesn’t follow. There is statistical evidence that 1% of the population is born with homosexual traits. Doctors do not know which individuals are born with homosexual traits but the statistics tell us there is 1 in every 100 on average. (Statistics obtained from studies of twins separated at birth and reared in different environments.)
I suspect that doctors would be reluctant to conduct genetic tests for homosexuality, if such tests exist, and that they wouldn’t tell the parents even if they knew. You cannot say that people are not born homosexual just because doctors do not tell the parents.
Dcotos not telling you that your kid will be autistic? Yeah, I noticed that doctors also only tend to diagnose autism instead of predicting it.
Must have something to do with complexity of autism or sexual preference or short-sightedness or multiple sclerosis or Altzheimer or intelligence that you can’t just find the one single genetic marker christian idiots, pardon, scientists want you to show them so they are convinced that it is not up to choice.
Right. But you can be born straight. really, when did you come out of the closet? How did your family accept you the way you are, you certainly chose to live through hell by getting bullied, beaten, harassed, and insulted from everyone just cause you’re straight, and eventually committing suicide because you “chose” to be something you’re not, amazing.
Wait wait wait guys… I had no idea that there was such a thing as “gay” genetics. I thought attraction, sexual pleasure, etc was almost entirely psychological? Pleasure is a stimulus response, but arousal is extremely important.
So, is being gay genetic, or is it influenced by social surroundings? If you don’t choose one or the other, you’re being as ignorant as the people you find yourself so much better than.
actually, they may not be entirely true. while there is (as someone pointed out) no proof that there is a gene that controls whether or not people are straight or homosexual (or bi, for that matter), an unbalance in hormone levels could be a potential factor. all mammals start out as female (possibly lizards and such, too, but i’m not entirely sure). perhaps a male didn’t develop into a male fetus until late in the gestation, causing their estrogen levels to be higher than normal, or a female began to transition into male far enough along that it stayed female, but obtained higher testosterone levels. (note: i am not in any way saying that someone being homosexual is considered a physical problem in their bodies. just that the hormone levels could be a contributing factor to their orientation).
also, i had an interesting theory. there’s at least been an increase in homosexual people that have made themselves known in the past however many decades. i’m wondering if when the world was a bit less populated, if there were just less people who WERE homosexual. is it possible that, as a species population reaches it’s carrying capacity (or in our case, becomes overpopulated), that the genetics of some cause them to be attracted to the same sex, instead of the opposite sex, to help slow down the growth rate? it made sorta sense to me, since humans aren’t the only animals to show homosexual behavior.
either way XD off my little weird rant thingy. i know it’s funny, but i like what this guy said.
Humankind has not reached its carrying capacity. There is plenty of space on this planet. I have heard it said that the entire population of the world could fit in Jacksonville Florida. Twice.
Also, I believe that homosexuality is a spirit. Because most gay people exhibit the same speech patterns and similar clothing choices. It makes sense to me that more people would be gay because Satan hates humanity (because we were made in God’s image), and he wants to get rid of us. Therefore, he gives people the spirit of homosexuality so they won’t reproduce.
“You can’t be born gay…” Evangelical Christian propaganda that is not born out by scientific evidence.
Approximately 1% of the population is born with genes that in later life give a person gay feelings. Scientific evidence can be obtained from statistical studies of twins reared in different environments and by the genetic markers referred to in an earlier comment.
A fetus lacks the cognitive abilities to understand gay or straight. It’s functions consist of “it’s warm in here, I’m glad I don’t have to chew my food, I’ve peed in this embryonic fluid so much by now it must be mostly urine”
I hope we would all agree that for any person, the right to life is at least slightly more important than the right to pursue a particular type of relationship.
Whether a fetus is a person, of course, is an entirely different debate.
I admit I’m more than a little tired of the ol’ “You have to CELEBRATE the way we conduct our SEX LIVES or you want us DEAD, No Middle Ground!” folk, and the original poster is a prime example.
Yes, it’s true, it is possible for someone to not want to redefine marriage without wanting to killz teh gayz. A lot of homosexual people oppose same-sex marriage and special protection of sexual orientation over all else. Does that mean they want to kill each other?
You’re right. Being gay appears to be more of a fetish or kink than a birthright. I’d go over the reasons, but I’ve found that liberals are just as closed-minded (or more) to new ideas as the folks they oppose.
We shouldn’t persecute or exclude people because they find feet sexy, except insofar as they might be a little creepy as shoe salesmen. But OTOH, we don’t have a “feet-lovers pride” festival paid for with MY college tuition monies, allow people to marry their shoes, or lobby congress to pass laws ensuring companies hire foot fetishists.
Political agenda aside, your reasons would be moot, simply because those in opposition have no ground to stand on, for the simple fact that they themselves are (allegedly) NOT homosexual. That would be like me trying to give reason and judgement towards Aboriginal tribes, which I know nothing about short of reading books about them.
I dont think that it is possible for males to “choose”what makes them get a boner. Female bodies versus male, its all in what gives you a boner. You dont choose it.
As a Christian and a scientist I would like to add that I accept people 100% who are born with genuine gay feelings and wish them all the best in this twisted and ugly world.
As a practicing and literate Catholic, of course I’d fight for their right to life, being gay, which has absolutely no evidence of being genetic, has nothing to do with it. Everyone has a right to life, born and unborn. Before anyone asks, yes, I’m also against the death penalty and war, no need to try to pull TROLOLOL HYPOCRISY card.
Commence flame war in 3…2…1…
*Comments
*party
*now
Not gonna comment on this one (besides this comment).
Well I’m certainly not going to respond to your comment, then.
and I wont comment to your comment
I will
*comments*
Stop.
♫…beforrrreeeee… you tear me all apart…♬
*awkward silence*
What?
I wonder which Sam Brown song that was… Oh wait, now I remember. That one she had.
(jk, I love this song though)
Hammer time?
Collaborate, and listen?
Ice is back with a brand new invention…
Something grabs ahold of meWHOOAAAAHHH!! Get your hands off my crotch you filthy animal! Damn you, Jerry!
Oops…my bad…
In the name of homesexual love?
Is this kinda like the the “divide by 0″ debate?
*divides Tasha by zero*
*cries*
its okay technically you didnt divide her by anything, since zero is…..welll… zero!
Technically zero is not nothing, that would be the empty set.
6/3 is 6 divided into 3 groups, which each contain 2, which means the answer is 2. 6/0 is 6 divided into 0 groups. That is not reasonable.
Genetics FAIL.
It has never been proven one way or the other if sexual attraction, something that can change gradually in a person’s lifetime (to different extents: see, pedophiles), has a genetic influence. In fact the whole idea is absurd. I’m all for not hating on people who pursue homosexual lifestyles, but hating on people that simply believe different things than you for religious reasons by being confused about how genetics works is just wrong on so many levels.
ummm… try checking with the South Korean Institute for advance science and technology… They’d smack you in the face with the actual results where they found the GENETIC MARKER for homosexuality in female mice… oh and go read the 20 year old study that shows how when a woman has a male child the body sees it as an invader and produces anti-bodies to attack it… The more males that woman has the better the body gets at fighting the male fetus with anti-bodies and hormones.. which results in an vastly greater chance that the later male children will be born gay. BTW that study is confirmed by even Christian scientists and they even made a video for churches to show. so ignorance fail.
Thank you for that dose of linkless unpublished junk science that’s true because you want it to be.
Actually… that stuff is in my AP Psych textbook. Myer’s Psychology 9th edition (in modules). Not everything in real science has web links to creditless sites like you think. And not everything used in a debate needs to necessarily be cited, it could be just prior knowledge.
^This
Which is great for mice… but not so much for people. A study on people?
http://borndifferent.org/identical-twins.html
If one of a pair of identical twins is gay, that gives a larger (52%) chance the other will be gay… so 50/50ish.
Why, if this is a genetically controlled trait; would it be 50/50? If one twin has blue eyes, the other identical twin damn well has blue eyes.
But yeah, it’s completely genetic… and genetics control outcome about 50% of the time.
Of course that site uses their evidence to “prove” that it is completely genetic; so don’t feel bad.. lots of people apparently don’t understand science.
Or prove me wrong… explain why a genetically caused trait has a 50/50 chance of applying to an identical twin with the exact same set of genes.
^This
two arguments…
1. either it is a combination of social and genetic factors that create the tendency, which might need a genetic background but a social/emotional/psychological influence to “activate” (so to speak). thus, why many people (more common in women) who have suffered certain kinds traumatic sexual abuse are also homosexual.
2. the genetic code is indicative of a tendency, not a hardwired fact — in other words, it shapes a mental or emotional path of development, it doesn’t create tendency in and of itself — and the creation of that path could, with other factors, result in homosexual tendency if said path of development is continued.
but you’re right — if it was purely genetic, then people with identical genetic codes would have the same genetic tendency. at the same time, if it was not genetic at all, one could argue that the 50% rate (which is, depending on which study you read, 5-10 times more common than the average) is an anomaly that needs to be explained.
It’s a mixture of genetic factors and prenatal hormones. Look up the post that talks about the antibodies in a mother’s womb; that’s why having more older brothers increases your chances of being gay
If one twin is born with a birthmark, that doesn’t mean the other one is.
‘Twas a joke. Don’t give it so much thought.
Um… okay. The first guy’s point is a little forced, but the dad had some good pwnage.
It was completely forced. Even granting the “homosexuality is sin” and “we can reliably predict homosexuality” arguments (both of which are ridiculous), there is never and never has been a prohibition against bringing a child into the world because it might sin after it gets here.
Never.
Nowhere.
Nota.
Except in an atheist’s mind as he waits shivering in bed for the evil Christians to jump out of the closet and “get” him.
Atheist strawmen stand in fields at night scaring away crows, they don’t sleep in beds. Seriously this flamewar was supposed to be aimed at Christians, how the hell to people manage to drag atheists into every. Bucking. Debate?
Being a fetus is not a choice!
neither is being gay, unless you’re bisexual, then you have a choice.
I agree, though bisexuals also can’t suppress their feelings because of their surroundings, and can’t choose to be with a male just coz of it, if they are inlove with someone of the same sex.
And the commenter two comments below, should get some education, on humans.
If what you WANT to believe was actually true, then doctors would be able to tell parents weather their kid was going to be gay just like they can (and do) tell the parents if the kid is going to be autistic.
You HAVE noticed that this doesn’t happen back here in the real world, right?
This doesn’t follow. There is statistical evidence that 1% of the population is born with homosexual traits. Doctors do not know which individuals are born with homosexual traits but the statistics tell us there is 1 in every 100 on average. (Statistics obtained from studies of twins separated at birth and reared in different environments.)
I suspect that doctors would be reluctant to conduct genetic tests for homosexuality, if such tests exist, and that they wouldn’t tell the parents even if they knew. You cannot say that people are not born homosexual just because doctors do not tell the parents.
Dcotos not telling you that your kid will be autistic? Yeah, I noticed that doctors also only tend to diagnose autism instead of predicting it.
Must have something to do with complexity of autism or sexual preference or short-sightedness or multiple sclerosis or Altzheimer or intelligence that you can’t just find the one single genetic marker christian idiots, pardon, scientists want you to show them so they are convinced that it is not up to choice.
But their parasitic lifestyle is.
You can’t be born gay… your sexuality is based on the influence around you, how you are raised, and the morals accepted by your family.
That explains all the gay kids rejected by their uptight, narrow minded families, right?
Have a kid. Watch them “turn” ghey and then make a statement.
Being ghey IS a choice. I didnt choose to like women….but i do. Explain that.
It’s spelled “gay” and no, it isn’t a choice. It is all genetic. That has been proven by many studies.
yes. see: psychology
Right. But you can be born straight. really, when did you come out of the closet? How did your family accept you the way you are, you certainly chose to live through hell by getting bullied, beaten, harassed, and insulted from everyone just cause you’re straight, and eventually committing suicide because you “chose” to be something you’re not, amazing.
You’re not born wanting to hump ANY gender…you’re born as a baby. Babies don’t do it…
Shaddup idiot you know nothing.
youre born biologically trying to reproduce….heterosexually
does it hurt to be as stupid as you are? I hope so…
And how exactly did the morals accepted by your family make you g.ay?
Wait wait wait guys… I had no idea that there was such a thing as “gay” genetics. I thought attraction, sexual pleasure, etc was almost entirely psychological? Pleasure is a stimulus response, but arousal is extremely important.
So, is being gay genetic, or is it influenced by social surroundings? If you don’t choose one or the other, you’re being as ignorant as the people you find yourself so much better than.
Or, quite possibly… there is still no answer.
Its a psycological error. Mutation of brain cells that make you want a penis in yer butt.
no no, you were right first time. disregard the confusion stemming from those who believe that political correctness governs science
actually, they may not be entirely true. while there is (as someone pointed out) no proof that there is a gene that controls whether or not people are straight or homosexual (or bi, for that matter), an unbalance in hormone levels could be a potential factor. all mammals start out as female (possibly lizards and such, too, but i’m not entirely sure). perhaps a male didn’t develop into a male fetus until late in the gestation, causing their estrogen levels to be higher than normal, or a female began to transition into male far enough along that it stayed female, but obtained higher testosterone levels. (note: i am not in any way saying that someone being homosexual is considered a physical problem in their bodies. just that the hormone levels could be a contributing factor to their orientation).
also, i had an interesting theory. there’s at least been an increase in homosexual people that have made themselves known in the past however many decades. i’m wondering if when the world was a bit less populated, if there were just less people who WERE homosexual. is it possible that, as a species population reaches it’s carrying capacity (or in our case, becomes overpopulated), that the genetics of some cause them to be attracted to the same sex, instead of the opposite sex, to help slow down the growth rate? it made sorta sense to me, since humans aren’t the only animals to show homosexual behavior.
either way XD off my little weird rant thingy. i know it’s funny, but i like what this guy said.
Humankind has not reached its carrying capacity. There is plenty of space on this planet. I have heard it said that the entire population of the world could fit in Jacksonville Florida. Twice.
Another helpful link: http://persquaremile.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/the-worlds-population-concentrated.png
If it’s crowded where you live, MOVE!
Also, I believe that homosexuality is a spirit. Because most gay people exhibit the same speech patterns and similar clothing choices. It makes sense to me that more people would be gay because Satan hates humanity (because we were made in God’s image), and he wants to get rid of us. Therefore, he gives people the spirit of homosexuality so they won’t reproduce.
evolution cant work that way. you have a good idea, but something like that would take a very long time
welcome to the 1950s…wait! it’s not then anymore? well damn.
“You can’t be born gay…” Evangelical Christian propaganda that is not born out by scientific evidence.
Approximately 1% of the population is born with genes that in later life give a person gay feelings. Scientific evidence can be obtained from statistical studies of twins reared in different environments and by the genetic markers referred to in an earlier comment.
BOOM!
Dad + internet = troll
A fetus lacks the cognitive abilities to understand gay or straight. It’s functions consist of “it’s warm in here, I’m glad I don’t have to chew my food, I’ve peed in this embryonic fluid so much by now it must be mostly urine”
Fetuses speak English?
Nah, he used Google Translate.
Yes you keep the baby.
A fetus cannot be gay.
*fat US
I hope we would all agree that for any person, the right to life is at least slightly more important than the right to pursue a particular type of relationship.
Whether a fetus is a person, of course, is an entirely different debate.
I like seeing you around here.
I admit I’m more than a little tired of the ol’ “You have to CELEBRATE the way we conduct our SEX LIVES or you want us DEAD, No Middle Ground!” folk, and the original poster is a prime example.
Yes, it’s true, it is possible for someone to not want to redefine marriage without wanting to killz teh gayz. A lot of homosexual people oppose same-sex marriage and special protection of sexual orientation over all else. Does that mean they want to kill each other?
Yes it does. At least on the internet.
You sir, are a hero.
You’re right. Being gay appears to be more of a fetish or kink than a birthright. I’d go over the reasons, but I’ve found that liberals are just as closed-minded (or more) to new ideas as the folks they oppose.
We shouldn’t persecute or exclude people because they find feet sexy, except insofar as they might be a little creepy as shoe salesmen. But OTOH, we don’t have a “feet-lovers pride” festival paid for with MY college tuition monies, allow people to marry their shoes, or lobby congress to pass laws ensuring companies hire foot fetishists.
What about a pedophile parade?
“… but I’ve found that liberals are just as closed-minded (or more) to new ideas… ”
*yawn* Your comments are so much more valuable without the insults.
THANK YOU.
Political agenda aside, your reasons would be moot, simply because those in opposition have no ground to stand on, for the simple fact that they themselves are (allegedly) NOT homosexual. That would be like me trying to give reason and judgement towards Aboriginal tribes, which I know nothing about short of reading books about them.
Shoes cannot give consent. Gay people can.
Funny one.
And, no,it doesn’t matter, human is human.
lolwut?
*Divides gabaybay over zero*
WUT?!?!?!!
*faints*
I dont think that it is possible for males to “choose”what makes them get a boner. Female bodies versus male, its all in what gives you a boner. You dont choose it.
Teh Presidon’t has the weirdest b6ner right now.
As usual.
As a Christian and a scientist I would like to add that I accept people 100% who are born with genuine gay feelings and wish them all the best in this twisted and ugly world.
As a practicing and literate Catholic, of course I’d fight for their right to life, being gay, which has absolutely no evidence of being genetic, has nothing to do with it. Everyone has a right to life, born and unborn. Before anyone asks, yes, I’m also against the death penalty and war, no need to try to pull TROLOLOL HYPOCRISY card.
To answer the original question, yes I would defend that gay fetus’ rights…until the minute they’re born, of course.